In this Exclusive Interview with Joseph Tegbe, Director-General and Global Liaison for the Nigeria-China Strategic Partnership, Tegbe who was in China on a working visit, speaks extensively on the purpose of his office, his view of China, visit of Chinese FM to Nigeria, FOCAC, plans, vision and sundry issues
Q: welcome to China, how many times have you been to China?
A: Thank you very much. This is my 13th time in China. The first time that
I was in China was in 2002, then I came back in 2006, I was here for
Beijing Olympics with my family in 2008 and subsequently, I have been here a couple of times. It is great to be back in China.
Q: I remember you told me that everytime that you come to China, you
could see that China is changing. You said China is changing very
fast. So, what kind of change do you mean?
A: Everytime I come to China, everything is improved, especially in
infrastructure. I see a lot of infrastructural development in China and again, beyond that, I see that China has over the last twenty years become self-sufficient and I always marvel at the discipline of the Chinese. Overtime, the
integration of China with the rest of the world is improving and China is becoming a metropolitan country.
Q: Many of my Chinese and Nigerian friends have asked me about the nature, type and organization of the Nigeria-China strategic office. Whether it is governmental or nongovernmental. Can you give us more information?
A: Let me give you an introduction to the Nigeria-China strategic office. It is a government office setup in the Presidency of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. I have my background in the private sector. Before, I spent thirty-five years working with Arthur Andersen, a renowned American firm in consultancy. I also worked with KPMG and I retired from KPMG last year after thirty-five
years of working in KPMG. Before my career in consulting, I had a stint in Engineering. I graduated with a first class in Civil Engineering, mastering in structures and then I specialized in human resources strategy, technology
and public sector advisory. Now, the Nigeria-China strategic partnership
office was set up in September, 2024. It is just about 3 months to 4 months old. At the September 2024 FOCAC here in Beijing, President Xi Jinping and
President Bola Ahmed Tinubu agreed to elevate the relationship between
China and Nigeria to a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership. On the basis of
that, we have taken our relationship with China very seriously. We
elevated our relationship with China and President Bola Ahmed Tinubu decided to appoint me as the Director-General and Global Liaison for Nigeria and China Strategic Partnership. What are my roles? Number one is to coordinate, monitor and evaluate all the agreed projects between Nigeria and China agreed at FOCAC. There were 54 programmes and projects that were
agreed in the MOUs that were signed between the two countries. Those
projects span from infrastructure to agriculture to health care to education to mining, manufacturing and technology. Now, in the past few years, when
those things are agreed, you don’t have a central point for coordination. So, my role is to coordinate and ensure that those projects and programmes are
adequately implemented. But beyond that, my secondary role is to ensure that all relationship between Nigeria and China from the perspective of business and economy are properly evaluated and properly monitored and ensure there is value for money and a win-win relationship between China and Nigeria. That is what my role is. But underlying that, you cannot do business, you cannot do economic development without some level of diplomacy. So, I work with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other Ministries in Nigeria and the Ambassador, the Chinese Ambassador to Nigeria and now Ambassador in Beijing here, the Charge d’ Affaires, to ensure there is coordination. So that is what my role is.
Q: In recent years, China and Nigeria have jointly implemented a large
number of strategic cooperation projects under FOCAC that you have just mentioned. Could you tell us about these achievements and cooperation between China and Nigeria in recent years?
A: The relationship between China and Nigeria dated back to over fifty years ago. And the relationship between Nigeria and China has always been very
cordial. China has always respected Nigeria and Nigeria significantly
respects China. FOCAC projects that are agreed span across those seven
sectors I mentioned earlier. But most importantly, in the last couple of years, there has been a lot of infrastructure development in Nigeria, championed and facilitated by China. China has been assisting Nigeria with funding and with technology and expertise in the area of infrastructure. Most of the major infrastructure development in Nigeria today, are carried out by Chinese companies. And they do not only do the building and development, they maintain. Many companies like China Communications Construction Company have played major roles in Nigeria, developing our roads, developing our ports. And then in the railway sector, China has played a significant role and they continue to play roles that in the next few years, you are going to see China moving from infrastructure and getting involved in things like agriculture, technology and education. And beyond that, I will tell you, China has played a significant role in our telecommunication sector. Companies like Huawei were early comers in Nigeria. So, today, some of the FOCAC projects have played a significant role in developing Nigeria and it has
been a very mutual relationship.
Q: Early this month, we are aware that a member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee and Foreign Minister, Mr. Wang Yi, His Excellency, paid a very successful visit to Nigeria. What are your comments concerning Mr. Wang’s bilateral talks with President Tinubu
and Minister Tuggar. What is the impact of this visit on China-Nigeria relations?
A: Thank you very much. Mr. Wang Li who is a very respected Chinese Minister and a very renowned politician in China and who we also respect globally, came over to Nigeria and we had a very, very good and cordial discussion. We had two major meetings. The first meeting was with the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Honourable Minister Yusuf Tuggar. I was in that meeting and we had good exchanges. In that meeting, Nigeria reaffirmed her commitment to One China Principle and he was very complimentary of Nigeria’s supportive role to China. We had discussions that span over our relationship over the infrastructure development that China is involved in with Nigeria. Specifically, we had discussion around funding support to Nigeria and we used the opportunity to thank Mr. Wang Yi for the renewal and the signing of the two billion swap line that we just had. And we asked that if there is a possibility of increasing the line to ten billion dollars, Nigeria will be very appreciative. Beyond that, Mr. Wang Yi met with our President and I was also there in the meeting. At that meeting, we had a very wonderful discussion with our President. At that meeting, Mr. President also sought support of the Chinese government in ensuring that Nigeria gets a seat on the UN Security Council which Mr. Wang Yi replied in the affirmative to support Nigeria. We also sought discussion around Nigeria joining the partnership of BRICS countries and Nigeria promised to look at the opportunity. And he told us that being a partner and being a member are not very different. So it is something that we are currently considering. Mr. The President also restated at that meeting support and asked for support from China to Nigeria in funding most of our infrastructural projects which Mr. Wang Yi also replied affirmatively about. Couple of other areas that we discussed are in the areas of automobiles, we seek support from China in the EV vehicles, in the area of AI, Artificial Intelligence, in the area of agriculture, and you see some of the initiatives we have started planning. So in all, Mr. Wang Yi, a very experienced diplomat , addressed most of the discussions in a very positive way and I think at the end of the day, we are seeing positive reactions from the Chinese government and agencies since after Mr. Wang Yi left Nigeria.
Q: During this visit, Ambassador Tuggar stated that the MOUs signed between China and Nigeria at the September 2024 FOCAC were at different stages of implementation. Can you provide us with specific details or information about these stages?
A: Like I told you earlier on, the MOUs cover different areas. It covers infrastructure, it covers exchange programmes between the two countries where Nigeria seconds people to China. In November last year, we had thirty people coming from Nigeria to China. They attended an Education, Economic and Governance Development Programme at the National Development and Reform Commission. Beyond that, a couple of infrastructure projects are at different stages of completion. There are railway projects that are ongoing, being supported by Chinese banks, specifically China Exim Bank and China Development Bank. I have met with these two banks in the last few days and we reviewed various stages of development. I think most of the FOCAC projects as I see today are progressing well. But they are in different areas. Infrastructure, agriculture, technology exchange and education. They are all significant projects and we are getting support from China through the China Exim, China Development Bank. And increasingly, I mentioned some companies earlier on who are contributing and have become friends of Nigeria. I mentioned China Communications Construction Company,CHEC, I mentioned CCECC, I mentioned Huawei. These are companies where we have friends. For most of the players in those companies today, they have become friends, they have become brothers. If you take CCECC, I have a good friend there called George Peng and they support us on our initiatives and some of the other entities are very good friends and they are passionate about Nigeria’s development.
Q: You Know our President and Chinese people always call our African friends brothers. We call them brothers. What do you think about this?
A: You know Mr. Loni, let me tell you what I found very interesting and I said it this morning to somebody. Interestingly, Africa shares a lot of commonalities, we share a lot of things in common with China, with the East, that is China and India. The communal nature in Nigeria and China, we share that in common. Families are closely knit and we take family ethics, family values, we take them very seriously and I have seen that China also takes that very seriously. And I have seen that Chinese are like Nigerians. For you to build trust either in business or diplomacy, or anything, you need to start as friends and when your friendship develops into brotherhood, then you can trust each other to a level and then you become partners. And that is what I have seen in the evolutionary relationship between China and Nigeria.
Q: At FOCAC last year, our President, President Xi Jingpig pointed out that China and Africa accounted for one third of the population of the world. Our President stated that without the modernization of China and Africa, there is no modernization of the world. Against the backdrop of convening the Beijing Summit, the dream of jointly pursuing modernization in China and Africa has set out a wave of modernization in the global south. What are your expectations for this modernization of the global south?
A: You know over time when you look at the development in China. I was in a meeting yesterday with the respected economist in China, Professor Justin Li and we were discussing the evolution and revolutionary impact of modernization. When you look at China forty years ago, compare China to the West, there was no development. Infact, some areas in Nigeria were more developed than China. Now, luckily, you had a leader that looked inwards and developed China. And at a point in time, opened up China to the rest of the world. And the good thing about it is we are now seeing the transmission of that modernization that China experienced being transferred to Africa and we can see the modernization in what China is doing in Nigeria, in what China is doing in Ethiopia, in what China is doing in DRC, in what China is doing in South Africa and a lot of interactions between China and Nigeria. And we could see that technology improvements and some of the transformation we see in Africa is being championed by China. The beauty of all these is the fact that not only does China come with technology, it also comes with funding and with the adequate review of the funding structures, we do get some values. So the wave of modernization is tremendously having a positive impact on the rest of the world. And very soon, with the help of China, Africa will be the envy of the rest of the world.
Q: Thank you. Now, you know that China believes, our people believe that the
ultimate goal of modernization is to realize the free and all round development of human beings. China has all along shown the willingness to actively carryout cooperation with Nigeria in such areas as personal training, poverty reduction and employment. What kind of achievements do you think have been made in these cooperation between China and Nigeria?
A: I think an example was given to me yesterday. when I was talking to Justin Li. And he cited an instance in Ethiopia and Rwanda, where cooperation between the two countries resulted in a shoe maker from China going over to Ethiopia to set up a factory in Ethiopia. And within a space of two years, what we found out was that the shoe maker employed seven thousand workers within one year. Then, there were also multiplier effects. The trainees of the shoe maker also left and were employing an average of five hundred people. You can see the multiplier effect. The same thing is happening in Nigeria and my President, President Bola Ahmed Tinubu, GCFR has realized that we can leverage China’s technology and China’s modernization policy to improve livelihood in Nigeria. Lift people out of poverty. I noted that 60% of the arable land in the world is in Africa. China only has 10% of the arable land in the world. Despite that, China is feeding 1.4 billion people. I believe with the support of China and we get it right as Africans, as Nigerians, we will lift a lot more people out of poverty in Nigeria because we have the resources and have good ideas of what to do with those resources. All we need is technology, consistency and brotherhood between us and China. We will achieve some of these goals.
Q: Under the partnerships, China already proposed ten partnership
actions last year. So, in order to promote the implementation, of
these actions, the Chinese government will provide a quarter of 360
billion yuan of financial support in the next three years to Africa. In this regard, how do you see China’s support for Africa?
A: 360 billion yuan is 51 billion dollars of support that is coming from China. We believe that it is a good start. It is a good point in the right direction. And that is where the funding support for some of the FOCAC projects and programmes are coming from. Like anything, sometimes we become Oliver Twist. We believe China can do more. We believe we can get more that 51 billion from China. We believe China has more resources to share with their brothers in Africa. So we are looking forward to more support.
Q: At FOCAC, China has offered to encourage and support Africa’s
issuance of Panda bonds in China to provide strong support to China-Africa practical cooperation in various fields. We know you are a famous banker and accountant. How do you view this and what suggestions do you have concerning the Panda bonds?
A: You know in the past, Nigeria and most African countries have always raised Euro bonds. We raised bonds in other countries. And of course in the past, you remember that China’s economy was a closed economy. Now that China has opened up its economy and we are doing more transactions with China, investment in Panda bonds is one of the ways to go and I believe with the investments in Panda bonds, Nigeria can get more returns on those investments. Our transactions will become more free between the two countries. So, it is something that we welcome and the Nigerian government, the economic team is already on how we can realize the benefits of the Panda bonds. So, you will see us move in that direction very soon. In addition to the Panda bonds, one of the things that we are exploring as a country is working with China to ensure that we have funds flow between the two countries. Going the route of having to do business with China and going the route of dollar to do RMB, you want to do business in yuan and then you go through dollar to get your naira is something that is a bit tedious and costly. We do business with the US, we do business with Europe and we do exchanges in pounds and we do exchanges in dollars. We Want to be able to do direct transactions with China. Exchange of Yuan to naira. I had a very wonderful discussion with DRC in the past few days. I have met with China Exim bank, I have met with China’s development bank and in my discussion with the Director-General of African Affairs in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, there are other funding options. Pand bonds is one, RMB line. There are other ones that we are exploring. I might not be able to discuss them now, but we are working together to look at those options, including participation of Chinese banks in Nigeria. So, you are going to see a lot more happening in the financial sector between Nigeria and China in the next few months.
Q: Thank you. Just one more question. In the course of the interview, you told us that your government has always supported the One China
Policy. China has also given strong support to Nigeria in International
affairs. In what areas do you think China and Nigeria can have more
cooperation in international affairs?
A: Every time I have interacted with Mr. Wang Yi and all the senior officers of NDRC, the senior officers of the Foreign Affairs, we have reaffirmed President Bola Ahmed Tinubu’s commitment and affirmation of One China Policy. We know this is important to you. And the fall out of that is the fact that the Chinese government is also encouraging Nigeria to be a partner to BRICS so that we can also enjoy benefits from other BRICS members. So that is expansionary. Part of it also is the fact that China also wants to join the technology hub where Nigeria is a member and we have promised to support China. Part of the expansionary influence is the fact that Nigeria is also seeking a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council. So, what you see is that the relationship between Nigeria and China that has been very cordial in the last fifty years is getting stronger and is being strengthened with this Comprehensive Strategic Partnership that we have. China is the only country today that Nigeria has a dedicated Director-General of somebody of my status. I have thirty five years of solid experience in the private sector. I have had a stint in politics. There is no other relationship that you have a dedicated person to coordinate. It shows you how important China is to us in Nigeria and how we value the relationship between us and China. We believe this relationship will continue to be mutually beneficial, will continue to be a win-win situation and is going to be a rewarding relationship over the next few years. Thank you very much.
Thank you for your time
Thank you for having me, Mr. Joseph Tegbe.
